30 October 2011
Dear Phyllis,
The other night Pammy and I were at a prayer meeting and heard a heart-rending testimony. I very fine sister was there who gave a positive testimony that she had just gained access to one of her three children. Over a year ago her husband had left her for another woman and taken her three children with him. For over a year she had not only been abandoned by her unfaithful husband but deprived of her children. That kind of antics does marvels for my adrenaline system. I would love to go castrate the vile man who could pull a stunt like this.
But the rest of the story tripled my enthusiasm to put him on a pig spite and roast him over the flames of hell. What I heard after that just made me want to vomit. It turns out that her husband is a gifted guitarist on a praise team and the lovely lady that he has chosen as his bed partner is a very well known gal, who profess to be a lady-pastor and runs a large praise center. More than that it was reported that before she got in bed with the guitarist, she first had sex with his brother. How sick can you get?
Since our initial encounter with Noi, the victimized sister, Pammy has become close friends with her. The part of town and Christian circle where this drama is taking place is close to where Pammy lived for two years, and the Christian circle are Pammy's closest friends. She – along with everyone else in that area – knows the husband and the other woman. I was utterly thunder struck that such a thing could go on with no one raising a voice against it. It would appear that a major factor is establishing the morality of this disgusting sin – and acceptance by the Christian community – is money. The lady is very wealthy, and no one wants to jeopardize their relationship with her and her money. Further more her Praise Center is a very well known establishment, and the Christian pastors want to continue to have access to their talent.
It really is none of my business except that somehow there seems to be something wrong with this picture. The Name of Christ is being hosted in a sewer. It would seem to me that someone should do something about it; but the main ones involved are silent. I have been agonizing over what – if any – is my role in this matter.
Friday night I had a very unusual experience. For several weeks there has been talk about a big combined meeting of several churches at a resort. It sounded like a real good deal. To the best of my knowledge, I was supposed to be the main speaker. Keosari, who was sponsoring it, had personally asked me to speak, and Pammy frequently reminded me. I really felt the Lord had given me a message to share with these people that night. Keosari was supposed to stop by to pick us up at 4:00 that afternoon. Being military, I am very sensitive about being on time. This is a huge culture conflict here in Thailand as everyone in Thailand runs on Thai time – which is any time you get there. No one is expected to be on time, and punctuality has never been considered as Christian issue. To me, keeping your word is a very serious issue, and I refuse to compromise on that subject. I wasn't surprised when Keosari didn't show up at 4:00, but by 4:30 I was having a severe struggle with tolerance. At 4:45 I said, “Hang it!”, changed my clothes, and went back to work. At 5:20 Keosari cheerfully showed up. She politely apologized for being late again, and I nearly took her head off. But I cooled down enough to changed my clothes again, and got in the car to go to the meeting.
It was horrible! I pleaded with the Lord to “create in me a clean heart and renew a right spirit within me” (Ps. 51:10) so I could speak. No soap. He didn't do it. By the time we got to the meeting, I told Pammy to tell Keosari that there was no way I could speak at her fun fellowship meeting. Count me out! The main attraction she had was a very good guitarist and a female singer who led the praise, and were front and center all night. I was as defeated as I have been in many years. After we got home Pammy spoke a real word of wisdom to me. She said, “All right, I will be honest with you now. The guitarist was Noi's husband and the singer was the adulteress woman.” Bang!!! I thanked Pammy for not telling me sooner. After she told me that, I understood why the Lord never lifted my spirit that night. It wasn't me that was upset. It was the Holy Spirit that didn't care for the party.
The next morning Pammy told me more details about the sordid mess. The situation reminds me of the time a surgeon friend of mine was operating on a young boys leg. He had no idea what was inside until he opened it up, and was horrified to find everything was purifying cancer. The situation with Nit, the adulterous female pastor, is well known among all the pastors in that fellowship. Keosari knows in detail what is going on but is trying to help her get reestablished as a Christian leader. There is talk that she and the man she stole from Noi might even get married. Nice talk!
As I shared with you before, church discipline is a major problem in Thailand. Thai pastors seem especially reluctant to take corrective action to cleanse the Thai church and make a barrier to keep Christians from sin. It is one thing that ordinary believers live in open sin, but when it comes to high profile Christian leaders getting a pass; this is an especially serious issue. If no one else is willing to raise a voice of protest, I feel especially constrained to do all within my power to see this sordid matter is dealt with properly. I have a bit of a stand to do this. I am a respected senior missionary among these people. Keosari has been very desirous to have me work with her, and frequently has me speak at her meetings.
Tomorrow I plan to have a serous talk with her. There is no question but what she is complicit in this horrible act of adultery. To have two Christian leaders be so blatantly involved in sin of this nature, and then sponsor and endorse them, is to be a partaker of their sin. The scripture warns at least three rimes about being partakers of other men's sins (1Tim. 5:22, 2Jn. 11, Rev. 18:4). By inviting them to be a main feature in her fellowship meeting, Keosari is complicit in the sin.
Furthermore I am disturbed that the Thai pastors are aware of this situation and remain silent. Yesterday I spoke with an American missionary who was much involved in this fellowship. About a year ago, when he saw what was going on, he felt constrained to pull out. He told me that he felt it was wrong to stay in fellowship with people who were engages in deep sin of this nature. He told me, “I don't know what can be done or how to handle a mess like this.” My reply was, “I don't know what can be done but I do know one thing that is wrong. That is to be silent!”
Pammy suggested, “Perhaps we should just pray and let the Lord deal with them.” But 1Cor. 5 is very clear that the church has a serious responsibility to deal with evil offenders. You can't get much clearer than 1 Cor. 5:6 that commands, “Put away from yourselves that wicked person.” If we don't shoulder our responsibility and do what God commands, it is pointless to ask God to do anything or help us. There is such a thing as God-given responsibility of administration. There is such a thing as God-ordained vertical structure in both society and within the church. The Bible clearly speaks of “those who rule over you” in both cases (Rom. 13:1,2; Heb. 13:17). In the case of a bank robbery or murder, it would be just as reasonable for a police chief to say, “I don't think i should do anything. God is the judge. I will just stay here in the police station and pray, and let God deal with them”; as for mature Christians to fold their hands, endorse the most wicked form of sin, and then say, “Well, I will just pray for them. and let God deal with this situation”. That is the epitome of irresponsibility.
People have asked me, “Do you have any command of God that you should get involved and speak to these people?” My response to that is; that I have as much a call of God as Phinehas did when he speared Zimri and Cozbi. In Num. 25:1 we read, “Israel began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab.” Zimri was the son of one of the top men in Simeon. To show his defiance to the law of God and Moses, he took the daughter of the chief of Midian and had sex with her “in the sight of Moses and all the congregation of Israel”; who were weeping before the door of the tabernacle (verse 6). Why didn't Moses do something? I don't know. Apparently he was praying. When Moses, Aaron, and the rest of the leaders of Israel didn't move and were silent; Phinehas grabbed a spear and spiked both of them to the ground as they were engaged in the very act. He had no business acting like he did, but God gave him an A+ rating (Num. 25:10-13). A friend warned, “When you go to speak with these people, please be very kind.” I replied, “I certainly don't want to be any less Christ-like than Phinehas when he speared that wicked couple in Numbers 25.”
Along with Nun and Nit, the wicked adulterous couple, and Keosari – who is endorses them – there are also a number of Thai pastors who are silent to supportive. Needless to say they also are on my conversation list. Peter is a very fine pastor. I spoke in his church two weeks ago, and am scheduled to speak there again next Sunday. I have great respect for him. But he knows all about the mess with the wicked praise team and Keosari, but he felt it prudent to remain silent and speak at the fellowship meeting Friday night. That puts him in bed with the other three.
Most Christians who are aware of that odious mess at the House of Praise agree that something needs correction, but ask, “What can be done?” My response is, “Why not do what the Bible says?” Paul gives very specific instruction in 1 Cor. 5:4,5 – deliver them over to Satan. This is not just some idle suggestion but something that Paul practiced himself. He told Timothy that he had “delivered Hymenaeus and Alexander over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme” (1 Tim. 1:20). We also have Paul's Elymas prayer in Acts 13:8-11.
I knew a situation several years ago where a group of elders were dealing with a very defiant adulteress. The meeting turned into a shouting match. They got mad and shouted at her, and she shouted right back at them. She could thumb her nose at them and they were powerless to do anything. They asked my advice, and I said, “Why not obey the Bible? (1Cor. 5:5). They were horrified at such a suggestion.
Small wonder the church is in a mess. This isn't just a local problem but one that is rampant virtually world wide. It certainly is true in America where over 80% of young people see nothing wrong with free sex; and the church is saturated with open sin. We have the same situation here in Thailand. And I suspect this is a common problem in most countries.
It will be interesting to see what the Lord will do when I speak to Keosari and then push forward to the core of the problem. Something desperately needs to be done. If I can find some men with guts enough to take a stand and spiritual authority, perhaps a vile situation can be cleaned up. And maybe a little fear of God instilled in the bystanders. We wonder why there is no fear of God in the churches today. Maybe this is the reason. Pastors are silent to supportive. Few men will take a hard stand, and fewer still have any spiritual authority.
May God give me grace to stay low enough that He might use a maverick weak servant. Lord Jesus,do it for Your own Names sake.
bill
Dear Phyllis,
The other night Pammy and I were at a prayer meeting and heard a heart-rending testimony. I very fine sister was there who gave a positive testimony that she had just gained access to one of her three children. Over a year ago her husband had left her for another woman and taken her three children with him. For over a year she had not only been abandoned by her unfaithful husband but deprived of her children. That kind of antics does marvels for my adrenaline system. I would love to go castrate the vile man who could pull a stunt like this.
But the rest of the story tripled my enthusiasm to put him on a pig spite and roast him over the flames of hell. What I heard after that just made me want to vomit. It turns out that her husband is a gifted guitarist on a praise team and the lovely lady that he has chosen as his bed partner is a very well known gal, who profess to be a lady-pastor and runs a large praise center. More than that it was reported that before she got in bed with the guitarist, she first had sex with his brother. How sick can you get?
Since our initial encounter with Noi, the victimized sister, Pammy has become close friends with her. The part of town and Christian circle where this drama is taking place is close to where Pammy lived for two years, and the Christian circle are Pammy's closest friends. She – along with everyone else in that area – knows the husband and the other woman. I was utterly thunder struck that such a thing could go on with no one raising a voice against it. It would appear that a major factor is establishing the morality of this disgusting sin – and acceptance by the Christian community – is money. The lady is very wealthy, and no one wants to jeopardize their relationship with her and her money. Further more her Praise Center is a very well known establishment, and the Christian pastors want to continue to have access to their talent.
It really is none of my business except that somehow there seems to be something wrong with this picture. The Name of Christ is being hosted in a sewer. It would seem to me that someone should do something about it; but the main ones involved are silent. I have been agonizing over what – if any – is my role in this matter.
Friday night I had a very unusual experience. For several weeks there has been talk about a big combined meeting of several churches at a resort. It sounded like a real good deal. To the best of my knowledge, I was supposed to be the main speaker. Keosari, who was sponsoring it, had personally asked me to speak, and Pammy frequently reminded me. I really felt the Lord had given me a message to share with these people that night. Keosari was supposed to stop by to pick us up at 4:00 that afternoon. Being military, I am very sensitive about being on time. This is a huge culture conflict here in Thailand as everyone in Thailand runs on Thai time – which is any time you get there. No one is expected to be on time, and punctuality has never been considered as Christian issue. To me, keeping your word is a very serious issue, and I refuse to compromise on that subject. I wasn't surprised when Keosari didn't show up at 4:00, but by 4:30 I was having a severe struggle with tolerance. At 4:45 I said, “Hang it!”, changed my clothes, and went back to work. At 5:20 Keosari cheerfully showed up. She politely apologized for being late again, and I nearly took her head off. But I cooled down enough to changed my clothes again, and got in the car to go to the meeting.
It was horrible! I pleaded with the Lord to “create in me a clean heart and renew a right spirit within me” (Ps. 51:10) so I could speak. No soap. He didn't do it. By the time we got to the meeting, I told Pammy to tell Keosari that there was no way I could speak at her fun fellowship meeting. Count me out! The main attraction she had was a very good guitarist and a female singer who led the praise, and were front and center all night. I was as defeated as I have been in many years. After we got home Pammy spoke a real word of wisdom to me. She said, “All right, I will be honest with you now. The guitarist was Noi's husband and the singer was the adulteress woman.” Bang!!! I thanked Pammy for not telling me sooner. After she told me that, I understood why the Lord never lifted my spirit that night. It wasn't me that was upset. It was the Holy Spirit that didn't care for the party.
The next morning Pammy told me more details about the sordid mess. The situation reminds me of the time a surgeon friend of mine was operating on a young boys leg. He had no idea what was inside until he opened it up, and was horrified to find everything was purifying cancer. The situation with Nit, the adulterous female pastor, is well known among all the pastors in that fellowship. Keosari knows in detail what is going on but is trying to help her get reestablished as a Christian leader. There is talk that she and the man she stole from Noi might even get married. Nice talk!
As I shared with you before, church discipline is a major problem in Thailand. Thai pastors seem especially reluctant to take corrective action to cleanse the Thai church and make a barrier to keep Christians from sin. It is one thing that ordinary believers live in open sin, but when it comes to high profile Christian leaders getting a pass; this is an especially serious issue. If no one else is willing to raise a voice of protest, I feel especially constrained to do all within my power to see this sordid matter is dealt with properly. I have a bit of a stand to do this. I am a respected senior missionary among these people. Keosari has been very desirous to have me work with her, and frequently has me speak at her meetings.
Tomorrow I plan to have a serous talk with her. There is no question but what she is complicit in this horrible act of adultery. To have two Christian leaders be so blatantly involved in sin of this nature, and then sponsor and endorse them, is to be a partaker of their sin. The scripture warns at least three rimes about being partakers of other men's sins (1Tim. 5:22, 2Jn. 11, Rev. 18:4). By inviting them to be a main feature in her fellowship meeting, Keosari is complicit in the sin.
Furthermore I am disturbed that the Thai pastors are aware of this situation and remain silent. Yesterday I spoke with an American missionary who was much involved in this fellowship. About a year ago, when he saw what was going on, he felt constrained to pull out. He told me that he felt it was wrong to stay in fellowship with people who were engages in deep sin of this nature. He told me, “I don't know what can be done or how to handle a mess like this.” My reply was, “I don't know what can be done but I do know one thing that is wrong. That is to be silent!”
Pammy suggested, “Perhaps we should just pray and let the Lord deal with them.” But 1Cor. 5 is very clear that the church has a serious responsibility to deal with evil offenders. You can't get much clearer than 1 Cor. 5:6 that commands, “Put away from yourselves that wicked person.” If we don't shoulder our responsibility and do what God commands, it is pointless to ask God to do anything or help us. There is such a thing as God-given responsibility of administration. There is such a thing as God-ordained vertical structure in both society and within the church. The Bible clearly speaks of “those who rule over you” in both cases (Rom. 13:1,2; Heb. 13:17). In the case of a bank robbery or murder, it would be just as reasonable for a police chief to say, “I don't think i should do anything. God is the judge. I will just stay here in the police station and pray, and let God deal with them”; as for mature Christians to fold their hands, endorse the most wicked form of sin, and then say, “Well, I will just pray for them. and let God deal with this situation”. That is the epitome of irresponsibility.
People have asked me, “Do you have any command of God that you should get involved and speak to these people?” My response to that is; that I have as much a call of God as Phinehas did when he speared Zimri and Cozbi. In Num. 25:1 we read, “Israel began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab.” Zimri was the son of one of the top men in Simeon. To show his defiance to the law of God and Moses, he took the daughter of the chief of Midian and had sex with her “in the sight of Moses and all the congregation of Israel”; who were weeping before the door of the tabernacle (verse 6). Why didn't Moses do something? I don't know. Apparently he was praying. When Moses, Aaron, and the rest of the leaders of Israel didn't move and were silent; Phinehas grabbed a spear and spiked both of them to the ground as they were engaged in the very act. He had no business acting like he did, but God gave him an A+ rating (Num. 25:10-13). A friend warned, “When you go to speak with these people, please be very kind.” I replied, “I certainly don't want to be any less Christ-like than Phinehas when he speared that wicked couple in Numbers 25.”
Along with Nun and Nit, the wicked adulterous couple, and Keosari – who is endorses them – there are also a number of Thai pastors who are silent to supportive. Needless to say they also are on my conversation list. Peter is a very fine pastor. I spoke in his church two weeks ago, and am scheduled to speak there again next Sunday. I have great respect for him. But he knows all about the mess with the wicked praise team and Keosari, but he felt it prudent to remain silent and speak at the fellowship meeting Friday night. That puts him in bed with the other three.
Most Christians who are aware of that odious mess at the House of Praise agree that something needs correction, but ask, “What can be done?” My response is, “Why not do what the Bible says?” Paul gives very specific instruction in 1 Cor. 5:4,5 – deliver them over to Satan. This is not just some idle suggestion but something that Paul practiced himself. He told Timothy that he had “delivered Hymenaeus and Alexander over to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme” (1 Tim. 1:20). We also have Paul's Elymas prayer in Acts 13:8-11.
I knew a situation several years ago where a group of elders were dealing with a very defiant adulteress. The meeting turned into a shouting match. They got mad and shouted at her, and she shouted right back at them. She could thumb her nose at them and they were powerless to do anything. They asked my advice, and I said, “Why not obey the Bible? (1Cor. 5:5). They were horrified at such a suggestion.
Small wonder the church is in a mess. This isn't just a local problem but one that is rampant virtually world wide. It certainly is true in America where over 80% of young people see nothing wrong with free sex; and the church is saturated with open sin. We have the same situation here in Thailand. And I suspect this is a common problem in most countries.
It will be interesting to see what the Lord will do when I speak to Keosari and then push forward to the core of the problem. Something desperately needs to be done. If I can find some men with guts enough to take a stand and spiritual authority, perhaps a vile situation can be cleaned up. And maybe a little fear of God instilled in the bystanders. We wonder why there is no fear of God in the churches today. Maybe this is the reason. Pastors are silent to supportive. Few men will take a hard stand, and fewer still have any spiritual authority.
May God give me grace to stay low enough that He might use a maverick weak servant. Lord Jesus,do it for Your own Names sake.
bill